Updated: 17/4/07; 10:46:50.
James Strachan's Weblog
Ramblings on Open Source, Java, Groovy, XML and other geeky malarkey
        

Thursday, September 26, 2002

XML Scripting and XSLT. Maybe the procedural model is more understood, but is this a reason to use an inferior solution? Using goto is easier to understand than structured programming, but Dijkstra showed us that goto is harmful. [Be Blogging]

XSLT is great for processing an XML document in a declarative way and outputting a new XML document result. If you wanna process the XML in a different way, like work with database, invoke web services, work with your business objects then using XPath with a real programming language (say a procedural OO one) is often a good idea.

I don't think there's one size fits all uses when it comes to processing XML, its quite a broad topic.


2:45:08 PM    comment []

Rickard's comments on the shootout and the war.

Rickard ÷berg has posted some great comments on the J2EE Container Shootout. Before you get to the J2EE Container Shootout comments, keep an open mind as you read Rickard's comments on Bush's "war on terror" - like it or not, this is how we Americans look to some of our best allies.

[Blogging Roller]

Great comments from Rickard ÷berg and I agree with all of them. Servlets and Web Services are the future, I already view EJB as legacy.


1:42:48 PM    comment []

BEA's native XML scripting and Jelly. James Strachan continues his comparison of native XML scripting in BEA Workshop and Jelly. (XML native scripting originally pointed out... [Ovidiu Predescu's Weblog]

Great point Ovidiu. Using normal real programming languages like Java or JavaScript and just using an XPath engine like Jaxen is a great way of working with XML in a procedural way and once you've got your head around the basics of XPath its pretty easy too.

Incidentally there's a great XPath tutorial to get you started here.  

Using this approach you don't have to use the mind bending declarative XSLT processing model, which can take quite a long time to really understand. (It wasn't until I'd implemented an XSLT style rule engine that I really felt that I understood what XSLT really was).

When processing data centric XML the procedural approach with a real programming language is usually easier and more powerful. The declarative XSLT model comes into its own mostly when processing document centric XML using more free form, less structured documentation style markup.


10:46:18 AM    comment []

More JellySWT and shinny goodness stuff... I really need to learn not to look at blogsphere this late. There is always something really cool to mention. Well, it looks like James and me are on the same path. Check his reply on my JellySWT.

All this steams from my experince with Visual Basic. I find the current WYSIWG tools for Java just light-years behind. I've mentioned that I'm learning SWT to work on a new version of Korfe for Eclipse. If I can find a XML format, then Korfe could be used for DHTML, HTML, JSF, SWT, Swing even WebForm... The idea is that you create the client in this XML format. All you need to move to a new platform is a new render. This why I've followed XUL over tha past few years.

It is only now that I think I might have the skills to approach the project. Think about it what this could mean developers! VB RAD with Java power and goodness.

[A cup of joe]

Agreed with all that. Especially about the blogsphere, there's so much fun and interesting stuff going on out here.

A quick point about XUL which I'll explore in more detail later in a longer article. In terms of the XML language to define static content, HTML/XTHML is where its at and for rich widgets, XUL looks the serious contender for defining tables(grids), trees, menus, tabbed panes etc.

Its a trivial XSLT to turn XUL into JellySwing while allowing complete control and customization over the Swing usage. Ditto for JellySWT (if it existed :-)

The downside of XUL is that it assumes all models are RDF. So if, say, you'd written a Java TableModel which was editable, you'd need to spit it out as RDF (and parse RDF changes and apply them back into the model) so it could be rendered and edited in a XUL browser/client. I guess this is OK though we might want to abstract this detail a little bit to provide more flexibility in deployment configurations.

e.g. imagine a few different usage scenarios:-

  • HTML client, talks HTTP to Servlet engine with model in same JVM as the renderer (JSP/Jelly)
  • XUL browser on a remote web server, serving up RDF. Similar to the above but using bidirectional RDF to serve up the model rather than  serving up the view
  • Swing webstart application with internal Java model (which may talk to remote internet resources and do client side caching & work offline etc).
  • As above but the model is mostly remote, maybe using SOAP, XML or RDF to get/update the model using an arbitrary transport protocol: HTTP, JMS, RMI

So while I think that something like HTML, XUL, JellySwing, JellySWT is already totally do-able in terms of rendering the UIs, it'd be nice to figure out a way of solving the model and controller in the MVC trilogy.


7:59:21 AM    comment []

The Proliferation of Expression Languages.

Looks like there's a proliferation of Expression Languages (i.e. EL) in the Java world. An EL (according to me) is a mini language that helps express navigation through an object graph. So this doesn't include regex's w/c navigate strings and xpath w/c navigate xml. For starters there's JSTL and there's Jexl which adds a few more conveniences like support for invocation of methods. Why this isn't included in JSTL is beyond me!. At least Webwork EL supports method invocation, furthermore it's got an eval() like capability which can prove to be pretty useful.

There's Joda which leverages Jaxen and JXPath, both are languages based on XPath. XPath based EL's are more expressive and powerful than the JSTL variants. With XPath based languages you don't have to specify the exact path to an object, you can choose to ignore objects in the path. There's also OGNL supports a variant of lamda functions, although I don't think it's as powerfull as the XPath based ones.

Just to get you a feel of why EL's are useful, here's some motivation from the JXPath intro.
Consider this example: Address address = (Address)JXPathContext.newContext(vendor). getValue("locations[address/zipCode='90210']/address");

This XPath expression is equvalent to the following Java code: Address address = null; Collection locations = vendor.getLocations(); Iterator it = locations.iterator(); while (it.hasNext()){ Location location = (Location)it.next(); String zipCode = location.getAddress().getZipCode(); if (zipCode.equals("90210")){ address = location.getAddress(); break; } }

Stuff like this makes C# foreach construct look downright primitive!

[::Manageability::]

Agreed. I love expression languages for Java! Plus I think Jexl rocks.

Quite a while ago I mused about using XPath syntax to query Java objects. I love XPath, I think its a great language (I've spent enough time hacking it on dom4j and Jaxen) and at the time I really thought it'd be great to use it for Java objects too.

Since then, through working on the JSTL expert group helping define the EL in JSP and JSTL and working with Jexl and Jelly, I've come to a different conclusion.

XPath is a bit too complex and (unsuprisingly) XML centric with some unnecessary XML baggage. We should have a standard EL for Java that is Java centric usable by page authors and Java developers alike.

For me the big thing missing from XPath for Java is the use of method invocation. In an EL I want to be able to do things like

customer.orders[12].calculateTax('uk')

This is the feature that makes working with Jexl and Velocity so cool.  Indeed anyone who's done any Velocity will realise this single feature is essential.

From a standards perspective, the EL in JSP and JSTL came from a desire to make it easy for page authors (who are not necessarily Java developers) to access information inside beans without having to write Java code. So its focussed on making it easy to access properties, provided syntax sugar for hiding the differences between indexed properties, arrays, Collections, Maps etc.

So the EL in JSP and JSTL is cool - though I'd like it to go much further so that its also really cool for use by Java developers to provide method invocation and more.

So I far prefer Jexl which is a superset of the JSP and JSTL ELs, with full Velocity style method invocation. (Its hardly suprising, with Mr Velocity, Geir Magnusson Jr being the creator of Jexl).

Now it could be really cool to add the one missing feature of XPath, that of predicate expressions, to Jexl. So you could do things like

customer.orders[amount > 12 and isDeliverableTo('uk')].calculateTax('uk')

Then we'd have all bases covered. Incidentally the above are 'naked' Jexl expressions. when using these sorts of expressions inside Jelly or JSP you wrap them in ${}, such as ${customer.name}

Also note that Jexl also supports DynaBeans as well as regular beans and mapped properties which is a term used on the commons-beanutils project to be a property indexed by a String key such as...

public interface Foo {
// a sample mapped property
Object get(String property);
}

Which could then be accessed via

${foo.name}

which would call

foo.get( "name" );

7:15:57 AM    comment []

QDox 1.0 Released - http://qdox.sourceforge.net

This is the first opensource release of anything I've made in months - I've been a busy boy :)

QDox is a small footprint, high-speed Java and JavaDoc parsing library. It was born out of my own frustration with how slow code-generation tools were that rely on the Sun JavaDoc processor. This is much faster replacement. On my home machine it takes 16 seconds to scan 3000 files (courtesy of Apache CVS), where Sun JavaDoc takes just over 2 minutes. The library has no runtime dependencies and a simple and intuitive API.

MockMaker now uses QDox to generate mock objects from source code as part of the build process.

[Joe's Jelly]

This looks pretty neat; I'm gonna have to get a chance to play with it. I ended up handwriting a doclet on Jelly to autogenerate the tag documentation; I'm sure it'd be much easier using QDox and a Jelly script ;-)


5:49:28 AM    comment []

Jelly:SWT?.

James Strachan's has some new Jelly Swing stuff up that look very interesting. My deadline is quickly approaching, so I can't work on it right now. I'm going to dig into this some more. I just don't quite get the need for Maven.My main intrest would be to port it to SWT.

[A cup of joe]

Incidentally Jelly just uses Maven as its build system. Other than that Jelly has no dependency on Maven, so you can use Jelly by itself from the command line or inside Ant etc. Though since Maven uses Jelly its very easy to invoke Jelly scripts as part of your Maven build system.

BTW it'd be cool to implement a JellySWT library too along similar lines as JellySwing. I'd love it if I could define SWT UIs using XML markup as well; learning a whole new rich UI interface like SWT takes quite a bit of time.

Ultimately I'd love a cross platform, cross UI technology XML markup we could use that would automatically generate rich UIs for all popular UI platforms, HTML, DHTML, Swing, SWT, XUL. Having a core XML markup language that can be transformed, say, to JellySwing for some Swing specfic customization if required etc. Over the next week or so I'm going to be putting a story page together on thoughts on how to make the univeral UI markup...


5:44:25 AM    comment []

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